The subject comes up frequently in my work.
A woman preparing for a date with a new guy she met wonders out loud how soon sex is okay. If she likes the guy, are sexual relations alright on the second date, the fifth, or …? she wonders. Should she wait for an engagement ring or until after marriage?
Men preparing for a date with a new woman wonder the same.
They are good questions to ask, because sex can have heart-rending effect and life-changing consequences.
“It depends what you want out of the relationship.” I often answer. “Are you looking for a sexual fling, or a person you can spend the rest of your life with?”
If you’re looking for a person you can spend the rest of your life with, I explain, then give them a chance to know the real you. You’re more than someone to have sex with. You’re an intelligent being with values and ideals, hopes and aspirations, ideas and spiritual individuality to be cherished, honored and appreciated. A man or woman who truly loves you will see this first in you, honor and respect it. Give them a chance to see the real you before the senses take over and perhaps mislead hope.
Sex and love are not the same. Two people can have sex with no love between them, or perhaps one-sided love.
For the unwary, if the sex is great, they may get confused and think the “love” is great too. But if there is no true love, the joy will be short lived and the relationship left wanting.
The effect of sex is temporal. The effect of love is permanent.
For a promising relationship, it is wise to give love a chance to blossom first and take strong hold before sex enters the equation and creates possible confusion. The ideal and most satisfying commitment is life-long.
What do you want in the long run; a temporal fling or the real thing?
Hold out for the best. Your patience will be richly rewarded.
Yet another excellent answer to a curly question Evan 😉
Thanks for addressing this! I had the experience of having a difference of opinion with a guy I’d seen three times, who felt that was plenty of time to start an intimate relationship. Fortunately he was respectful about it. It made me realize I needed to more clearly define my boundaries. Someone told me that a comedian – maybe Steve Harvey – said you should wait a year. I don’t think you can put such specific timelines on it, but it is very important to wait a long time. My current feeling is to put the line at, not until marriage. Then I know the person is interested in me for me, and not just for sex. If I decide to change my mind, it’s my decision.
Not that it’s an issue at the moment… but I’m starting to make more friends, so it may well crop up in 2014.
Wow! Great answer / great insight! Thank you!
I am happily married. 12 years now. My boys are growing up fast. Thank you so much for this.
I am a man and yet the desire for sex eluded me. I think it to mechanical and only pleasurable in world belief. Marriage between two people who are happy is so much more important and pleasurable than the desire for sex. Though I am one in a million with this attitude of sex, I must be more thoughtful for my partners wishes, which I was and she never caught on. For the act that I’ve done should have won the academy award. There is now, in this century, too much talk and thought given to it instead of what really makes a successful marriage. AMEN!
Tobias, Don’t bet a paycheck she never caught on.
Great Spiritview Evan. Truly a Spirit view! Thanks.
Re: Tobias, wow. I commend you. You deserve more than an academy award.
Really? Is this what MBE would have said? Is this what Jesus would have said? If you are sure you love a person then commit to them first in marriage, then have sex.
I’m with you, Sara…I’m not seeing the Science in any of this discussion. Sorry to see the dumbing down of the revelation Mary Baker Eddy fought so hard to establish and protect for future generations!
Impeccable timing again, Evan! I woke up thinking a LOT about my teenage
grandchildren, and how confusing with mixed messages they get from “the world,”
and especially how to deal with your subject today. Mrs. Eddy wrote so much and so wisely on the vital importance of morals, and how they relate to health and spiritual progress. For our kids’ sake, let’s keep this convo going!
I know your New Year will be Happy, for you clearly keep “filled up full” with Truth’s
ideas!
With a grateful heart for your sharings, I thank you, Evan!
I believe that waaaaaaay too much emphasis is put on sex in our society and it is in no way a prerequisite to happiness as a single or a married person.
Sometimes the justification for premarital sex is to make sure it’s “good enough,” but it seems to me that if you truly love a person and he or she is the only one you want to share your life with, the sex question is irrelevant – it will be good enough because you love them so much, and if fact, it could be absent altogether and you can still be happy. True love is so much more than sex.
I firmly believe couples should wait til marriage – make the spiritual/emotional commitment first. Despite what society/media tells us (constantly, it seems), satisfying the mortal senses/cravings never results in long-term happiness (it takes much more than that) and doesn’t gain the blessing of God.
How can a couple refrain when the longings are there? It’s simple – don’t kiss until you’re engaged (made the commitment to marry) so you don’t get too hot and bothered, and then hurry up and get married! Think about it…that would work.
Everyone, thank you for your comments and inspirations! This is a tough subject to handle in public because there are so many strong opinions on one side or the other. Discourse on the topic that opens minds rather than closes them requires much humility, compassion, thoughtfulness, and care. Thanks for expressing those qualities for everyone’s benefit!
This is sage advice. It would be tough to be dating in today’s culture. The idea of waiting until marriage has hardly been mentioned anywhere for decades.
Love that this subject was brought up. I liked many of the things I read. Good job. I have often been conflicted on premarital sex. My generation confused the thought that sex equaled love. Being in
love with love is fabulous, but often the fabulous wears thin after weeks, months, years. You really need to know what you value together as a couple.
To cure a bodily ailment, every broken moral law should
be taken into account and the error be rebuked. (Science and Health, p. 392)
In the practice of Christian Science, there are so many subtle instances of broken moral law that we stumble over and have to root out in order to demonstrate healing. If Paul (1 Cor. 6:9,10) and Mrs. Eddy (Misc. Writ. 324:13) are to be believed, physical intimacy outside of marriage is NOT one of them but, quite the opposite, is among the most obvious and keeps company with a sorry lot indeed! If thought is so befogged in moral relativism as to be reluctant to identify and denounce even the most blatant transgressions of moral law, it’s difficult to see how one can ever hope to “Heal the sick, Raise the dead, Cleanse the lepers, [and] Cast out demons.” May Heaven help the Christian Science movement!
As Jesus proved, the most powerful and effective way to bless one’s neighbor is through love, forgiveness and compassion. These qualities do not overlook error, but elevate thought to a better place with good effect. The airs of self-righteousness and “spiritual pride,” can be worse sins than those of the accused.
You mention those who are a “sorry lot.” These are the very ones Jesus went to and loved the most. They were often the most receptive to his message and mercy.
Thank you Evan, for this comment! How often people are in fact looking for love thinking they find it in sex. Only a deeper love can heal their hearts and fulfil their cravings for love. To know that God is Love and is the origin and dwelling place of all mankind, will help people to progress morally and spiritually. To be self-righteous about this question and thinking one is better than others or that one is more spiritual than another is also breaking a moral law and in no wise leading to healing. I think we all need compassion and forgiveness on one issue or another. We all have to grow out of materialism. Self-righteousness is no less mortal mind than having sex outside of marriage. I know people with an oversize ego and convinced they know it all and better than others, because they think they are more ‘spiritual’ or praying better than others. But this mentality is in no wise more spiritual than to struggle with other moral issues. Thank you for having addressed this question in your blog!
Thank you Evan and all of the other people commenting. In my opinion I didn’t take any of the comments here as expressing “self-righteousness”. I just felt like they were expressing how they viewed the subject of sex before marriage for themselves…not necessarily being judgmental of others.
To take this discussion one step further…I even question the whole “marriage” idea. I understand there are legal reasons to get married but does getting married really constitute a “commitment” to another person when it is so easy to “undo” a marriage these days and marriages are undone so frequently? And why is it that just because two people mutter a few vows before a judge or minister that then that changes something (i.e. an act done before the vow muttering is a sin before but not after)? In other words, why can’t I commit to someone without necessarily going through a marriage ceremony (and I’m familiar with what Mrs. Eddy said about “spiritual marriages” but I don’t understand why she says that)? If a marriage is entered into with true commitment then I get it, buy why can’t I do the same thing without the whole legal process or ceremony? How many people these days enter into marriage with the idea that no matter what happens they will never ever get a divorce? Some people that don’t believe in sex until marriage *might* be partially (i.e. unconsciously) entering into marriage just for the so called legal or moral right it gives them to have sex…and that’s worse in my mind than having sex before marriage. Therefore, maybe sex before marriage would eliminate that unconscious element.
But in summary, I agree with the others who commented that WAY to much emphasis is put on sex these days! That’s not meant to be a criticism of this blog entry…quite the opposite. I so appreciate Evan’s willingness to tackle these thorny topics in such an honest and clear manner and sex is a topic on so many young people’s minds these days I think it’s great he posted this. But perhaps a good future blog topic would be one about how the sex pedaling industry has hypnotized so many into thinking that sex is the ultimate joy when in fact true love is the only thing that truly satisfies (i.e. a blog entry on WHY sex is a topic on so many young people’s minds these days).
Thanks Brian. Your points are noted!
I live i n a large college city. From what I’m told dating is out hooking up is in. As one woman said dating i for losers. Sex doesn’t hae much more meaning than shaking hands. Most of the time you know that persons name sometimes you don’t. 12 and 13 year olds are sexually active with a high percentage of STD’s. As you said in one of your articles sometimes you gotta face the bully and not run away. This seems like a great place to start.
I would like to thank Brian for his comment (especially for the first lines). He is certainly right – I have overreacted.
This is indeed a very difficult issue… Reading Paul’s contribution is heartrending! How important it is to pray for our children, that they may be strenghtened, protected and guided by our Father-Mother Love!
The “sorry lot” referred to in my earlier comment was not people but the broken moral laws which had been listed by Paul and Mrs. Eddy. (Self-righteousness, like that of the Pharisee, is also a broken moral law and would need to be handled before healing could take place, too.) Jesus beheld the perfect man (woman) of God’s creating but made it clear that to continue demonstrating that perfection required that they “Go, and sin no more.” There was no condemnation of individuals in my mind when I wrote what I did only the conviction that to demonstrate ANY science, there are absolutes and rules which must be followed or the desired results will not be achieved…Christian Science is no different. As a teacher, I didn’t hate or condemn the student who kept trying to get the right answer to an equation while having made a “fatal error” in addition in an early step. I patiently pointed out the flaw in his foundation to aid in his achieving success.
No, this is not an easy subject to address but it is a vitally important one to get right. In my reading of the periodicals and teaching Sunday School for many years, I know that taking a firm stand against the moral relativism of material attraction…or turning from it with a desire to find ones already-present purity…has initiated some pretty great healings!
Very nice Robyn. Thank you.
I would like to return the favor and thank Béatrice for her comments on self-righteousness. Your comments were beautifully written and a great reminder to us all to watch our thinking for that error and root it out!
And I’d also like to thank Robyn for her comments about how important it is to address moral deficiencies as part of our healing work. As Evan has pointed out in other blogs, how often people call him looking for a physical healing when in fact they need a moral healing. And thanks also Robyn for your many years of Sunday School teaching! I so appreciate the Sunday School teachers I had.
I really enjoy the comments everyone brings to this blog! Thank you to you all and to Evan for providing the ability for people to submit their thoughts and comments.
Ooops! It just occurred to me that the name Robyn can be either a male or female name. So my apologies for using the pronoun “her” in my previous comment if Robyn is indeed male.
“Her” was appropriate! 🙂
Thank you for all the comments. I thought I’d better clarify, too…I, in no way, meant to condemn anyone. My hope is always that others might not have to learn their lessons the “hard way.” True happiness is never found in error – we just have to figure out the difference. It would be helpful to study (the Scriptures/Mrs. Eddy’s works/periodicals/JSH online offer lots of guidance) and then try to stick with what we believe is right. No matter what, God is lovingly working His purpose out and guides, teaches, and loves every one of us every step of the way.
Thank everyone for your insights! It’s nice to hear an open discussion, in a supportive atmosphere. I know not every man (or person) just wants to hook up, but some do – that’s their right, and it’s mine to abstain. I was married, and I lived with another man for nearly 11 years afterwards. Now that I am back in Christian Science I choose to live by MBE’s edict of “no spiritual marriages.” I’m not condemning those who don’t, just stating it’s not for me. I’ve spent nearly 8 years alone trying to figure out who I am, and I don’t want to rush into a sexual relationship ever again because I feel that when you do, it ends up being about sex, and after it’s over, you keep looking for someone else to have sex with to replace it. It’s a vicious cycle. Better to not start in the first place.
Somebody asking when it’s okay to have sex before marriage is out there in physical-world land. Or at least sticking a toe in it. So give them what they need most at the time – the advice from the physical world. When? No less than six months plus after you and whoever first test negative for HIV, ABC, DEF and all the other nasty STDs like herpes. Six months plus the time it takes to get 2nd test-negative results back.
At the very least, that will get their attention back to God and Godliness.
I guess this is a something of a tough one for you Evan as a CS practitioner and teacher no less. Your Godly spiritual advice should keep people at least as preserved from shame and condemnation (in the form of STDs) as physical-world advice. But how you do that here to fulfill all righteousness without confirming the reality of disease does seem to be kind of a pickle. You do say that sex can have heart-rending effect and life-changing consequences, so maybe you go more in-depth with people when this comes up in your work.
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